Now, let's address your Fourteenth Amendment misinformation. | Utefans.Net
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Now, let's address your Fourteenth Amendment misinformation.

Posted By: ironman1315
Date: Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 09:57 pm

The 14th Amendment did not make people subjects. But, from your statement, it sounds like you believe in the absolutely asinine legal theory of sovereign citizenry. The 14th Amendment was written due to the gutting of the 13th Amendment. The 14th Amendment has been one of the most instrumental pieces in preventing abuses of power by state governments. Because, before the 14th Amendment, states could completely ignore the freedoms guaranteed by the Bill of Rights and other protections guaranteed, like ex post facto laws. Because, in Barron v. Baltimore, the SCOTUS, rightly according to the plain language of the constitution ruled that the US constitution does not apply to the states. That changed after the passage of the 14th. The 14th did not make us "subjects" it leveled, at least a little, the playing field at least a little.

Now, let's turn to the consent of the governed portion. First, your statement was quoted from the Declaration of Independence and has no authority in and of itself. So, what is the consent of the governed? Locke, Jefferson, and my self believe that the consent of the governed is required for a government to function. But what form does this consent take? Now, Jefferson and Locke stated that the consent of the governed can only be expressed by way of voting. Or, at the very least, is best expressed by voting. But is this the practical reality? No.

The long and sad history of the world is one of chains. People have been chained for some time. Unable to express themselves and decide how they wish to be governed. Ruled by tyrants, dictators, and monarchs. But these governments survived. Some survived for centuries. How? Because they had, at the very least, the tacit acceptance of the governed. Is it right? No. Is it reality? Almost certainly. Sitting on juries is an expression of consent but sitting on a jury is not the sole expression of consent. Voting is a form of consent, but it is not the sole expression of consent. History shows the minimum amount of consent necessary. It is not standing in open rebellion or acting in such a way so as to allow the government to remain the sovereign authority.

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Messages In This Thread

o NEW: The other thread is nigh unreadable. Zeous, if you have any evidence to support your claims that juries make laws do it here please.
ironman1315 - -- Thursday 13 June 2019, at 10:07 am [ID# 1948160] [reply]
o NEW: You would do well to understand the difference between questions of law and fact.
ironman1315 - -- Thursday 13 June 2019, at 10:10 am [ID# 1948161] [reply]
Zeous icon NEW: It's self-evident in the definition you selected. Who creates custom? Judges? Did judges exist before any and all custom, which precedes precedent? (pardon the redundancy, but apparently it is needed) (short)
Zeous - -- Thursday 13 June 2019, at 02:31 pm [ID# 1948177] [reply]
o NEW: Oh my hell. The customs referred to were judicial customs. Judge customs.
ironman1315 - -- Thursday 13 June 2019, at 07:50 pm [ID# 1948187] [reply]
Zeous icon NEW: Interesting that this triggers you so much
Zeous - -- Friday 14 June 2019, at 10:23 am [ID# 1948193] [reply]
o NEW: What does that have to do with how US law works now?
ironman1315 - -- Friday 14 June 2019, at 11:15 am [ID# 1948196] [reply]
Zeous icon NEW: Seems to me you are moving the goal posts, brah. Suddenly 1000+ years of precedent doesn't count? (long)
Zeous - -- Saturday 15 June 2019, at 02:24 pm [ID# 1948218] [reply]
o NEW: I am going to ignore the moving the goal posts, brah. Because you're the one doing it. The original debate started when I tried to explain the present common law system that we have. (long)
ironman1315 - -- Saturday 15 June 2019, at 09:38 pm [ID# 1948230] [reply]
o NEW: Now, let's address your Fourteenth Amendment misinformation.
ironman1315 - -- Saturday 15 June 2019, at 09:57 pm [ID# 1948232] [reply]
Zeous icon NEW: You're right, it didn't make "people" subjects, it made "persons" subjects. This is so boring. (nm)
Zeous - -- Tuesday 18 June 2019, at 12:54 am [ID# 1948302] [reply]
o NEW: You have a hard time with the English language, don't you?
ironman1315 - -- Tuesday 18 June 2019, at 09:30 am [ID# 1948304] [reply]
Zeous icon NEW: And be a person, and automatically makes every person "born" a citizen subject. What is the difference between person and people? In both legalese and common English (short)
Zeous - -- Thursday 20 June 2019, at 08:52 am [ID# 1948384] [reply]
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