One of the biggest problems that Trump has, if not created, exacerbated is that there is no room for common sense on this matter anymore. | Utefans.Net
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One of the biggest problems that Trump has, if not created, exacerbated is that there is no room for common sense on this matter anymore.

Posted By: Rocker Ute
Date: Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 08:44 am

To pretend that this is the greatest issue our country faces and it has only one solution is false. Also to pretend that it isn't an issue at all and the people crossing are solely an asset to our country is also false, but that is nearly how we've entrenched ourselves.

He rightfully points out that all past presidents have addressed this subject and concern and it actually IS a problem for all Americans.

I would agree that the majority of people crossing are just people looking for better opportunity and a chance at earning a living. No doubt there is crime that comes from it but likely no different than the rest of the population and some studies indicate that it might be a little less because of the fear of deportation. But let's not worry about that now... there are some real humanitarian and economic issues involved with illegal immigration.

First of all, people crossing put their lives at risk doing this. I'm sure 480 can attest, living in a border state, that there are pretty frequent stories of people dying in the desert, and people stranded in trucks who die from the elements, etc. Many of these people suffer and die because of unscrupulous criminals who take advantage of them with the promise of crossing the border. So we have an obligation to protect our borders to protect life.

Next, for those who do make it here and do work there are some significant positives and also significant negatives. Most do work that few Americans are willing to do and that helps keep costs down. But they put strain on things like our hospitals and schools and other social services as they use them but don't contribute to them because they don't pay taxes and don't have insurance. Hospitals provide billions of dollars of unpaid service through their emergency rooms, because they lawfully can't turn anyone away, which cost gets transferred to everyone else.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't provide care or access to education or whatever else to these people but it is a legitimate problem that needs to be addressed that costs us all.

GWB has a plan that was equally panned by both sides that to me indicates it was probably a pretty good idea. He wanted to implement an amnesty and easy worker visa program that would allow people to come and work for a couple of years at a time, at which they would need to return home and apply again - which wouldn't be a big deal to do. The idea is that then we could know who was here, could regulate what was going on, collect taxes to support their use of our social services while providing cheap labor to the industries that need it.

Now no doubt the wall is stupid and pointless and a waste of money and I support the democrats in not acquiescing to Trump's foolishness. Most of his claims about illegal immigration are solely designed to stoke fears and are based on his and many of his followers inherent racism.

But on the other side pretending like this is a non issue or that we should open the borders is nearly as ridiculous. Yet nobody can talk anymore about the legitimate issues, some of which I've mentioned above, because it is more important to be right that do what is right.

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Messages In This Thread


96GradAlum icon NEW: Love Jimmy's take on "The Wall" and a number of great truth bombs! I wish UTE BC, ocgreg, and their ilk could see this perspective. Unfortunately, they'd have to unplug from FoxNews propaganda matrix.
96GradAlum - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 07:13 am [ID# 1936093] [reply]
(10)
480ute icon NEW: I'm still pissed that the mainstream media has failed us so miserably in not reporting on these supercars that Trump claims are blowing right through the border.
480ute - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 07:33 am [ID# 1936094] [reply]
(4)
480ute icon NEW: In all seriousness, this may have been the craziest thing that Trump has said yet, which is quite the accomplishment.
480ute - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 07:37 am [ID# 1936095] [reply]
(4)
Puget Ute icon NEW: He watched Mad Max and somebody told him it was a documentary. (nm)
Puget Ute - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 07:59 am [ID# 1936097] [reply]
(5)
SforkUte icon NEW: MORE SUPERCARS! (nm)
SforkUte - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 08:21 am [ID# 1936101] [reply]
UTE BC icon NEW: You see the irony of asking me to get educated by Jimey Kimel (sp?) right?
UTE BC - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 08:15 am [ID# 1936100] [reply]
Newbomb Turk icon NEW: What people/sources do you consider credible? (nm)
Newbomb Turk - Top 25 Poster -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 08:22 am [ID# 1936102] [reply]
(1)
o NEW: Fox Hannity Limbaugh the usual conservative mouth pieces (nm)
FlyfishingUte - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 11:25 am [ID# 1936131] [reply]
UTE BC icon NEW: None of those. (nm)
UTE BC - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 12:27 pm [ID# 1936141] [reply]
UTE BC icon NEW: It’s an extensive list. Just doesn’t include stand-up comics. (nm)
UTE BC - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 12:26 pm [ID# 1936139] [reply]
Newbomb Turk icon NEW: So....not gonna share then..... (nm)
Newbomb Turk - Top 25 Poster -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 01:46 pm [ID# 1936155] [reply]
SkinyUte icon NEW: Telling that he continually ducks the question. (nm)
SkinyUte - Top 25 Poster -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 06:58 pm [ID# 1936184] [reply]
(1)
SkinyUte icon NEW: Um, nothing he said had anything to do with Jimmy Kimmel. (nm)
SkinyUte - Top 25 Poster -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 08:30 am [ID# 1936103] [reply]
(6)
o NEW: Actually its Jimmy Dore, not Jimmy Kimmel. So it not ironic, its prophetic that he would lament that you and other Trumper aren't willing to watch his perspective. (nm)
Ute Bear - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 08:33 am [ID# 1936104] [reply]
(3)
UTE BC icon NEW: they are both comedians. Sorry that my point flew over your head. I don’t get my perspectives from comedians
UTE BC - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 09:56 am [ID# 1936120] [reply]
SkinyUte icon NEW: I'd also be interested in the previous question. Who DO you find credible?
SkinyUte - Top 25 Poster -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 10:10 am [ID# 1936123] [reply]
(3)
o NEW: we don't care who educates you. We just want you to actually get educated and stop goose stepping with CLIO (nm)
FlyfishingUte - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 11:28 am [ID# 1936132] [reply]
UTE BC icon NEW: Who’s “we”? (nm)
UTE BC - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 12:25 pm [ID# 1936138] [reply]
Newbomb Turk icon NEW: Us. (nm)
Newbomb Turk - Top 25 Poster -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 01:45 pm [ID# 1936154] [reply]
(1)
Red Don icon NEW: Bill Maher went to Cornell and I'd venture to say has a better education than your inept president. (nm)
Red Don - Top 25 Poster -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 12:49 pm [ID# 1936146] [reply]
(1)
UTE BC icon NEW: Cornell vs Wharton- I’m going with Wharton (nm)
UTE BC - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 02:03 pm [ID# 1936156] [reply]
Red Don icon NEW: Two years versus four years; both are Ivy League. (nm)
Red Don - Top 25 Poster -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 07:47 pm [ID# 1936190] [reply]
(1)
96GradAlum icon NEW: I'm 55, so I doubt you're older. Since you thought it was Kimmel ... did you even watch it? I don't think so
96GradAlum - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 09:51 am [ID# 1936119] [reply]
(2)
UTE BC icon NEW: No. I didn’t watch it. (nm)
UTE BC - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 09:57 am [ID# 1936121] [reply]
o NEW: Perhaps you should prior to derisively dismissing it. Nah you've got hannity et al to do your thinking for you (nm)
FlyfishingUte - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 11:33 am [ID# 1936133] [reply]
(1)
o NEW: Why couldn't you learn from someone else?
UteBrave - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 10:02 am [ID# 1936122] [reply]
(1)
SkinyUte icon NEW: Meh, I can't really fault him for that. If one of our conservative friends posted a 20 minute hate...er, information video from someone like D'souza, for example, I wouldn't watch that either. (nm)
SkinyUte - Top 25 Poster -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 10:12 am [ID# 1936124] [reply]
(1)
Rocker Ute icon NEW: One of the biggest problems that Trump has, if not created, exacerbated is that there is no room for common sense on this matter anymore.
Rocker Ute - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 08:44 am [ID# 1936105] [reply]
(5)
o NEW: Great points. But its not just misleading, its wrong to say that they don't pay taxes. They pay ss taxes, sales taxes, gas tax, their rent pays for property taxes.
Ute Bear - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 08:57 am [ID# 1936107] [reply]
(3)
Rocker Ute icon NEW: What I'm saying is if they are here illegally they are probably being paid off the books and hence no income taxes and that is part of the 'burden' of having illegal people here. It seems to make sense to get them on the books and collect that.
Rocker Ute - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 09:41 am [ID# 1936116] [reply]
MinnesotaUte icon NEW: One problem is that we refuse to acknowledge that there are some problems that can't be 'solved' by simple intervention.
MinnesotaUte - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 11:56 am [ID# 1936135] [reply]
(1)
o NEW: the war on drugs has been an absolute failure (nm)
FlyfishingUte - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 12:40 pm [ID# 1936142] [reply]
pangloss icon NEW: I think if they came down heavy on the demand side, the migration would slow way down.
pangloss - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 01:36 pm [ID# 1936151] [reply]
(1)
MinnesotaUte icon NEW: It might not surprise you that I don't entirely agree
MinnesotaUte - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 03:58 pm [ID# 1936166] [reply]
o NEW: RE: One of the biggest problems that Trump has, if not created, exacerbated is that there is no room for common sense on this matter anymore.
Charlie - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 12:48 pm [ID# 1936144] [reply]
sweetgrass icon NEW: ocgreg wants a wall around USC ...
sweetgrass - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 08:54 am [ID# 1936106] [reply]
(5)
mokus icon NEW: Something something about keeping those hippies at Cal out more important than keeping the Compton gangs out. (nm)
mokus - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 09:11 am [ID# 1936112] [reply]
(4)
Newbomb Turk icon NEW: "Filthy" hippies.... (nm)
Newbomb Turk - Top 25 Poster -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 09:20 am [ID# 1936114] [reply]
renegadefly icon NEW: Listened, but this is not a reasonable host.
renegadefly - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 01:41 pm [ID# 1936152] [reply]
(1)
o NEW: RE: Love Jimmy's take on "The Wall" and a number of great truth bombs! I wish UTE BC, ocgreg, and their ilk could see this perspective. Unfortunately, they'd have to unplug from FoxNews propaganda matrix.
Charlie - -- Thursday 10 January 2019, at 03:16 pm [ID# 1936161] [reply]
(1)
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