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BYU content... but I did charts and stuff so you should read it anyway...

by Vegas Ute
2016-07-24 16:01:19

Man, BYU fans on twitter are fun, scary, but fun... I saw some "reasonable" BYU fans I follow retweet a clip where Collin Cowherd said nice things about them, basically he put them in a 4th group of 5-6 of all time college football programs. In that 16-24 range if you do simple math. One of the things that he noted was BYU's "success in Bowls."

Well I tweeted to my friend (and Collin I guess) that BYU is 13-20-1 (0.397) in Bowl Games, is the #67 football program in all-time W/L%, and is owned by their rival...

My, my you think that I had just insulted the virtue of every daughter in cooger nation...

Well that is just the precursor to this post, I got my data from CFB_data_warehouse (which is great site when you have arguments about historical data, well as long as the argument involves college football).

Since one of things that BYU fan use to defend the honor of their daughters... err favorite football program was literally that nothing before 1971 should count... I don't agree, but I do think the value of the deep past is less relevant than more recent data.

It turns out that CFB_data_warehouse has ranking system that awards points for W/L record, bowl wins, national championships and what not... without diving too deep into the actual ranking methodology I noticed that they have tables showing how programs fair on their system going back 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 50, 100 yrs and even all-time (going back to 1869).

Here is the page if you want to look for yourself.
http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/rankings /last_100_years_team_rankings.php

FTR: All-Time Utah is their #75 rated program (out of 125 current D-IA./FBS teams). BYU checks in at #85.

However I tabled and charted how BYU and Utah compare when you look back recently and then deeper into history.

For picture people:

Obviously you want to be under your rival on this graph.

Really this data just shows what Ute fans (and a lot of reasonable BYU fans) already know, in the early 1990's, let's say 1993 (22 years ago) Utah caught and proceeded to pass BYU as Football program.

And yes if you were a technical stock trader you might squint hard and see a couple of trend lines there, but I will someone else make the case if that has any merit.

>> Comment...


Position Preview: WRs

by afro14
2016-07-24 14:07:33

Utah's receiving corps is full of uncertainty and short on experience. One thing can be said for certain, there is a lot of versatility in this group, and a lot of athletic talent as well. Improvement in Utah's passing game is a two-part formula, and the receiving corps needs some guys to step up and stand out if Utah is to have a chance to win the South title this year.

Tim Patrick- 6'5", 210 lbs, SR
Patrick is back after suffering a bad injury in 2014 that kept him out all of the 2015 season as well. He showed flashes of what he could do in 2014, when he grabbed 16 passes for 177 yards. He enters fall camp as a presumed starter, and, if fully healthy, presents a matchup nightmare for opposing DBs. He's tall, fast, and strong, and hopefully will be Utah's go-to receiver this year.

Cory Butler-Byrd- 5'10", 180 lbs, SR
This will be Butler-Byrd's first season as a full-time receiver, although he did play some snaps at receiver last year, notably when he hauled in a long TD pass against ASU. The talent is most certainly there, he was a four star recruit and showed that he's a pretty dang good cornerback as well. Butler-Byrd is, in my opinion, exactly what Utah's receiving corps needs, he can stretch the field with his speed, but he's also quick and agile enough to be able to cause defenses problems on shorter routes as well. Hopefully his transition to WR will soften the blow of losing Britain Covey.

Tyrone Smith- 6'4", 205 lbs, SO
Smith is another tall outside receiver that can present some matchup problems for shorter cornerbacks. Despite impressing enough in fall camp to earn a starting spot, he had a quiet year in 2015. Part of this may have something to do with the fact he was underweight for a PAC 12 receiver, he looks to have put on about 10-15 pounds of muscle in the offseason, and hopefully that will serve him well this year. I don't expect him to be much of a deep threat, as I'm not sure he's got the speed for it, but hopefully he can be a reliable possession receiver for the Utes.

Kyle Fulks- 5'9", 178 lbs, JR
Fulks is another guy who can help soften the loss of Covey. He's an absolute burner, and reminds me of Reggie Dunn or Jereme Brooks. I hope to see him in the lineup plenty at WR as I think he can get loose over the top and cause all sorts of problems, but I think he may get a chance to make some noise as a kick returner as well.

Raelon Singleton- 6'3", 210 lbs, SO
Singleton has been hampered by injuries in his time here, but when healthy, he reminds me of a faster Kenneth Scott. He grabbed 6 passes as a freshman, and has a chance to play his way into a bigger role this year. The biggest question is if he can stay healthy. He suffered a shoulder injury that forced him to redshirt his freshman year (2014), and this year in spring he suffered a hamstring injury the first day of practice that sidelined him for the rest of spring camp. I really like Singleton's upside, and I hope we get to see it.

Caleb Repp- 6'5", 210 lbs, SO
Repp had perhaps the most impressive spring of any receiver establishing himself as a reliable possession receiver, but also making some very impressive long catches downfield. He had a great game against Oregon last year, catching two touchdown passes. Interestingly though, he didn't catch another pass all year. I question whether or not Repp has the speed to be a full time outside receiver, but he could present a lot of matchup problems if used properly in the slot position.

Kenric Young- 6'1", 189 lbs, JR
Young has been wildly inconsistent in his time at Utah. He came in as a highly touted recruit out of Florida, known for very impressive track speed. However, despite playing as a true freshman, he has never produced, as he's only caught 4 passes for 16 yards in two seasons. He had an up and down spring camp this year, making a few spectacular grabs, but also falling into slumps where he had lots of drops, missed blocks, and lazy routes. Unless he has a big fall camp, I doubt we'll see much of Young this year, especially given the fact that he was involved in an altercation at a pool party and may face discipline from the coaches.

Alec Dana- 6'2", 186 lbs, SO
Dana is the newest addition to Utah's receiving corps. He came to Utah via the JUCO route, and at one point, before getting injured in 2015, was a four star recruit. The coaching staff is very high on his ability and I think it's possible that he may work his way into the rotation this year. Although there is a limited sample size to look at, before Dana was injured, he had a game where he caught 12 passes for 247 yards and 2 TDs.

>> Comment...


Position preview: TEs

by afro14
2016-07-24 10:24:29

Utah is fortunate enough to have an embarrassment of riches at tight end, returning three players who started games at the position in 2015. Additionally, they saw the emergence of some very talented young players in spring camp. Having good TEs can be a great help for a new QB, so here's a reason (or six) to feel good about the offense going into this season.

Evan Moeai- 6'2", 230 lbs, SR
Moeai was the starter going into the 2015 season, but unfortunately was injured on his very first catch against Michigan. He received a medical hardship extension and will go in to fall camp 100% healthy. Although we haven't gotten to see much of Moeai during his time here, (one catch for five yards), the coaches are very high on his abilities as both a blocker and a pass catcher, so look for him to play an increased role in Utah's offense this year.

Siale Fakailoatonga- 6'4", 255 lbs, SR
Fakailoatonga is, in my opinion, Utah's best tight end. Not only is he an excellent blocker, but he showed his skills as a versatile pass catcher last season, grabbing 12 balls for 120 yards before getting injured against Arizona State. He returns, fully healthy and I would be surprised if he doesn't win the starting job in fall camp.

Harrison Handley- 6'5", 250 lbs, JR
Handley had a breakout year last season, stepping up big time after both Moeai and Fakailoatonga went down. He caught 21 passes for 286 yards and 4 TDs, and did so while only starting 5 games. His blocking was a little shaky to start, but steadily improved as the season went on. Handley may be the best pass-catching TE on the team, and definitely showed that he deserves plenty of reps this season, regardless of whether or not he starts.

Ken Hampel- 6'3", 250 lbs, SR
Hampel, a walk-on TE, showed some skill in spring camp. He's not the fastest TE on the team, in fact, he's probably the slowest, but he's fearless over the middle, has great hands, and is very hard to bring down. Last year he caught one long ball for 29 yards against ASU, but that has been his only catch while playing for the Utes. He'll probably finish fall camp fourth or fifth on the depth chart, so I doubt we'll see much of Hampel this year unless it's during garbage time or if injuries really take a toll

Wallace Gonzalez- 6'5", 255 lbs, SO
Gonzalez is a former baseball player that walked on to the team last year and initially played both ways at DE and TE. He has yet to record a catch for the Utes in a game, although he had an impressive spring. Regardless, I doubt we'll see Gonzalez in a game this year, but look for him to be a bigger contributor maybe one or two years down the road.

Chad Hekking- 6'4", 240 lbs, FR
Hekking is a recently returned missionary that was recruited out of high school as an ATH. He played QB in high school, but the coaches saw him better suited to play TE or LB in college. after watching this kid in spring, let me be one of the first to say that he is going to be a really good tight end for Utah. He caught everything that was thrown his way and looked better, at times, than some guys who have way more experience than him. I expect him to redshirt this year, but next year, look for him to rocket up the depth chart, possibly all the way to number 2 behind Handley.

>> Comment...


169 years ago, my great-great grandfather wrote in his journal,...

by pangloss
2016-07-24 12:17:20

He and some others had entered the valley on July 21st.

At a quarter to twelve, President Young and Kimball arrived and the wagons also began to arrive at the same time. The President seems much better and the sick generally are getting better. Most of the brethren express themselves well pleased with the place, but some complain because there is no timber. There appears to be a unanimous agreement in regard to the richness of the soil and there are good prospects of sustaining and fattening stock with little trouble. The only objection is a lack of timber and rain.

William Clayton, July 24, 1847

>> Comment...


You are welcome to your opinion, but wouldn't it cause you less stress if.

by Vegas Ute
2016-07-24 21:06:42

You just de-selected the category?

I mean rather than waiting for the world to change for your benefit.

>> Comment...


Another BYU vs UTAH dick measuring post.

by dutchman1234
2016-07-24 21:01:41

The sooner our fanbase ignores BYU, the better.

Unfortunately, some of our fanbase cannot get enough BYU, and cannot get BYU out of their head.

>> Comment...


RE: Remember Hekking's name. He won't play this year, but he will be amazing in a couple years. TE will be a huge part of the offense going forward.

by UteThunder
2016-07-24 13:12:39

TE will be a huge part of the offense going foward.


Every Off-Season since 2005

>> Comment...


Yes, on of the best features of Cfbtrivia.com is that it is the easiest site to see this...

by Vegas Ute
2016-07-24 17:13:20

You can quickly find a teams record vs. teams rank at time of play or (more telling IMO) teams ranked at year's end.

Going whole hog on BYU vs. Utah let's look at some numbers.

Since we (only half) joke that BYU fans think college football started in 1974.

Vs. teams ranked at end of season, From 1971 on:
BYU: 13-63-1 (0.175)
Utah: 16-56-0 (0.222)

Well since Utah fans might like to "start the clock" in 1993...

Vs. teams ranked at end of season, From 1993 on:
BYU: 6-43-0 (0.122)
Utah: 15-26-0 (0.366)

Might as well compare the Kyle vs. Bronco era:

Vs. teams ranked at end of season, From 1993 on:
BYU: 3-23-0 (0.115)
Utah: 10-20-0 (0.333)*

Winning "only" one-third of your games vs. teams that finished in the Top-25 might not sound like much, but it is actually not that easy to do. For instance, from 2005 through 2015:

Baylor is 8-32-0 (0.200)
Louisville is 5-18-0 (0.217)
Notre Dame is 9-29-0 (0.237)
Michigan is 12-35-0 (0.255)

and teams like Clemson and UCLA are just over that 1/3 line.

Clemson is 15-26-0 (0.366)
UCLA is 16-27-0 (0.372)

* Buried in this is that McBride did well vs. Top-20 (in those days) teams, in particular that #8 ranked 1994 team went 4-0 vs. teams that finished in the Top-20.

>> Comment...


I posted a head-to-head comparison of Utah and BYU over the last 25 seasons('91-'15) a few weeks ago.

by UteThunder
2016-07-24 17:08:57

And as a surprise to nobody but BYU fans, Utah it turns out, is the better team in just about every category over the last 25 seasons.

Overall Record - edge - UTAH(slight)
Bowl Record - edge - UTAH
Record vs P5 - edge - UTAH
Seasons of 9-4 or better - edge - EVEN
Fewest Seasons of 6-6 or worse - edge - UTAH
Head-to-Head Record - edge - UTAH
Top 25 Finishes - edge - BYU(by 1 season)

>> Comment...


I agree and disagree with that...

by Vegas Ute
2016-07-24 18:40:24

I obviously see your logic, and to be honest engaging BYU's fan base on the PR front is a "road game" propaganda is and has been for my adult life a BYU strength and a Utah weakness.

I honestly think BYU does a great job of selling their tradition, but they do such a good job of spin-doctoring, that few in either the local or national media will take a cold-eyed look at that facts and see how much "pie" is there is under all the "meringue."

Hell, someone has to pick up the sword and sheild and face the blue dragon ... Honestly if the BYU spin-masters have no opposition then by the shear repetition of half-truths and "faith-affirming stories" their myths become the public's view of history. I really don't stay up at night worrying about BYU's PR campaigns, but I am willing to do a little fact reporting to give them something to work around.

BYU fans obviously want to just lop off anything that is Pre-LaVell, they argue.
1) that is when the forward pass was invented (only half-joking).
2) the D-IA/D-IAA split came in 1971 so that is a logical cut-off.
3) Utah somehow "rigged" the rivalry before then, more home games at Utah or neutral games in SLC.

I doubt that any of the blue-blood programs (and neither Utah or BYU make that group) are willing to lop off all their pre-1971 history because some of D-I went the D-IAA route.

As Ute Thunder's data shows BYU fans really don't want to limit themselves to the last 25 years either, that data doesn't say what they want it to say... BYU fans have be careful cherry-pickers they want to look at 35 or 40 years to catch all of LaVell's salad years and not the preceding 50 years of Utah domination.

My thesis is not that BYU Football has accomplished nothing that is worthy of pride, no it is more that I think they have developed massive pride in moderate accomplishments, while refusing to give their now superior rival due credit.

LaVell's bowl record and record vs. Top-20 teams shows that the charge that there is a lot of meringue on top of that blue pie has merit.

It is not wrong to point out that BYU's salad days came after Arizona and especially ASU left the WAC and while Utah was having the two worst decades in the program's history.

I think it is worth noting that BYU's "rep" was made during a period of time then they could and did outspend their WAC completion buy factors of 2 to 3 times... In the MWC days coaches like Sonny Lubick at CSU and Ron McBride at Utah were able to roughly match BYU's on-field success while still facing a financial disadvantage. Plus BYU was 2-6 (lost last 4) vs. TCU after they entered the MWC.

I imagine that neither Utah nor any potential P-5 conference-mates in the future will have that financial disadvantage.

I have seem several BYU fans claim that Utah has had "2 good years in 40 years." Well for 15 or 20 of those year Utah was pretty bad, but there is more than 2004 and 2008 to Utah's accomplishments, and that is worth pointing out.

It is hard to argue with the proposition that since 1984 (not even going to talk about that schedule) only in 1996 has BYU had a year that comes close to those 2 years for Utah; meanwhile 1994, 2003, 2009, 2014, and 2015 are on par with any non-1996 season BYU has had since 1984.

BYU's miserable record vs. ranked team throws a little shade on even their best years under Bronco. Certainly Utah has slain more "giants" than BYU can claim over the last... well ever, really.

I really have droned on too long, and the more I type the more I think you might be right, but really with a view of the facts, it is not hard to stand up to the onslaught of BYU propaganda.

It is just hard to stay motivated... So little time, so many zoobies.

Someone else can pick-up the sword and shield for a while.

>> Comment...


All that data is pointless since it fails to account for number of instagram users.

by Kula Shaker
2016-07-24 16:19:54

Just kidding. Good stuff. Cfbdatawarehouse is a great site. Cfbtrivia.com is a great too.

>> Comment...


The B12 has said little about criteria. The only thing concrete is 8 of 10 yes votes are needed from current member schools.

by 89ute
2016-07-24 09:39:38

While a criteria for expansion targets hasn't been set, Boren said the Big 12 will look at "strength of athletic program, fan base, media market, reputation and academic standards."
"We're looking for schools that will strengthen the family," Bowlsby said.
Bowlsby did not provide a timetable when any presentations and "fact-finding" would take place.
Bowlsby said the Big 12 will look at the impact adding two or four teams would have, both competitively and financially.

“There likely will be a two-stage process of some sort that will involve some preliminary work, and then a secondary process as well that gets into a little more of a – perhaps even a fact-finding but also perhaps even a negotiation stage,” Bowlsby said.
Any expansion hopeful will need at least eight “yes” votes from the league’s board of directors for entry into the 10-team league, which currently consists of Baylor, Texas, TCU, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, West Virginia Kansas State, Iowa State and Kansas.

The schools most mentioned as candidates include BYU, Houston, Cincinnati, Memphis, Connecticut, Central Florida, South Florida, Colorado State and Boise State.

At this point we only have opinions. Bias aside, BYU is head and shoulders ahead of the rest. My opinion, none of these teams make the B12 any better which has also been the B12's opinion all along until a few days ago. Something changed. Again, my opinion, what changed is the ACC locking up their conference until 2036. B12 can't pick anybody off from the ACC or anywhere else for that matter unless the look to G5s. The door closed on the dream of getting Clemson and FSU. The other change is ESPN and Fox are showing they are still willing to shell out some cash.

I think the real "criteria" is the deal between the B12 and the networks. The networks are probably going to say instead of shelling out 100 million a year for 4 crappy schools, why don't we just increase the contract to X per year and lengthen the time.

The B12 is coming up with the X figure by getting 4 teams, or 2, hell 8 for that matter to drop their pants the furthest. For example, the B12 will say to the network "we have 6 teams willing to join and only take 5 millions a year". That puts X at 120 million a year to give to 10 schools. (25mil x 6 = 150mil - 30mil)

This is what I think the B12 is doing. Their "fact finding" is seeing how many teams will take a minimal payout while the conference keeps the rest. Can they get 2 teams to only take 5 mil? 4 teams to take 3 mil? 10 to take 2mil? Once the B12 has that number, that's when we see what happens, which I belive is to not expand and get a new contract.

>> Comment...


I'm really excited. Utah has still been building. This year may be the first time we have been a 100%, full fledged PAC-12 member depth wise. We've seen glimpses of what the offense should be. We've seen the run game, we've seen Utah try to stretch

by Ute2004
2016-07-24 13:43:46

the field. We've seen the TE's utilized before injuries, we've the trick plays.

Every year our offense has had to re-define itself midseason:

2011: Wynn goes down. FCS QB steps in.
2012: Wynn goes down again. FCS and true freshman QB again.
2013: Wilson goes down and we don't have depth behind him, causing Wilson to play even though he couldn't throw the ball.
2014: The DC fiasco.
2015: Moeai, Fakailoatonga, McCormick and Booker going down.

We have depth to fix all those problems this year:

Williams and Cox. We have depth and experience at the QB spot.
We are deep at RB.
We are deep at TE.
We have stability in the OC position and an identity (finally).

I don't think we will be top 4 in offense this year. But we can be top 6 (i.e., six or seventh) in the PAC-12. If that's the case, watch out.

>> Comment...



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