Informal Survey: What do you expect from Utah football?
These questions were originated by Utes Rule <firstname.lastname@example.org>
What do we really, honestly expect the Utah football team
should be able to accomplish? Do we want them to equal the success
of the Basketball Team? Do we want them to win a Conference Title
or 2 every once in a while? Are our expectations WAY to high for a program
that will never be able to be in the class of the Florida/Florida State/Michigan/Notre
Dame's of College Football?
Do you think McBride should go?
Posted By: Utes Rule <email@example.com>
Date: Tuesday, 5 October 1999, at 11:00 a.m.
Posted By: JimmyUte (103.salt-lake-city-05-10rs.ut.dial-access.att.net)
Impossible. In a way, Rick Majerus has spoiled
us, but there are very big differences between Football and Basketball
that make it possible for each to have different success.
No way SHOULD Ron McBride be fired or forced out
because we, as fans, are INCREDIBLY rediculous in our expectations. LET
ME REITERATE. WE, AS FANS ARE INCREDIBLY REDICULOUS IN OUR UNREALISTIC
EXPECTATIONS of the Utah football team. Seattle pointed out best,
the tradition of Utah football, and this is the exact reason why I feel
that Mac has been the GREATEST football coach in the history of Utah football.
He HAS taken Utah to the proverbial "next level." Is Utah capable of reaching
THE next level, of being consistantly ranked in the top 20 year in and
year out, of consistently winning the Conference Title, of going to a BIG
bowl game? NO, NO WAY!!! GET OFF COACH MAC!!!! I for one, will NEVER
voice an opinion in the majority of this board that he should be fired
or be forced to resign.
Date: Tuesday, 5 October 1999, at 11:30 a.m.
Posted By: Civil Ute (126.96.36.199)
The next level for Utah football is not competing
with the big teams for college football, the next level is to win ONE freaking
conference championship. I don't hear fans demainding top rankings or beating
the elite of college football. Attendance the remaining of the year
is going to be pathetic. The fans are tired of the same old bumbling Utes.
It is getting to predictable. If we are going to fill that stadium
and attract BCS conference teams to our stadium we need new hope and new
enthusiasm. After last week I am losing my hope and enthusiasm.
All I want is a competitiveness in the MWC that
leads to the occasional (or frequent) conference championship and a winning
record against schools from perceived lower conferences (ie. Big West).
Mac has done a lot for the football program, no doubt
about it. But he has not a single championship (4-way ties dont count)
and lost to a Big West school 5 times in the last 6 years. Its embarrassing.
There is no reason why Wyoming and Colorado State should be considered
better football programs than the U but they are.
Date: Tuesday, 5 October 1999, at 11:45 a.m.
Posted By: S. Gil (zeus.fscnet.com)
I really don't find my expectations for the Utah
football team to be so out of reach. Unfortunately, right now I fear that
Utah looks 7-4 or 6-5 right in the face. I can forgive the
Boise St. game, if it happens on the condition that all of this "extra
work" preparing for Air Force pays off in a victory. OOC games are nice
to win, don't get me wrong, but when it is all said and done it is Conference
Championships that I expect the Utes to be in the hunt for.
I don't have the naive visions that Utah will
ever attain the status of the men's b-ball team or the big names of college
football (ND, Florida St. Nebraska. Utah right now is a good tier 2 football
team (teams 30-60). Considering all involved they probably will always
be in that group of teams which in my book is ok because nobody else in
our conference is what I would consider a tier 1 (sorry Y fans) This is
not to say that there can't be great years or teams that rise above and
take it to the big boys but those are the exceptions and not the rule.
Win the conference! That is what I expect.
One (shared) title in how many years? 30 maybe?
That is horrible. I am sorry. I know the 70's and 80's were dark times
for the Utes but in McBride's tenure he has had IMO 4 teams that should
have won the title or at least shared the title. It is the same story on
The Hill. A lot of talent used unwisely. Wyoming has great recent history
with many bowl games and titles. In years past they have had similar talent
on their team as has been on the U but they have managed to find ways to
win games they need to. That is what I expect of the U. Find ways to win
games. It might not be pretty (Y-USU, Air Force-SDSU) but 'Just win baby'.
Date: Tuesday, 5 October 1999, at 11:54 a.m.
Posted By: Red Sheep (dm4-1.slc.aros.net)
I have had to consider my expectations regarding
Utah Football. I disagree with the notion that we should accept mediocrity.
I see Utah Football one day being the equal to programs like: Tulane, Arizona,
Colorado, Stanford, Arizona St, Oregon, BYU, Air Force, Kentucky, Marshall,
Michigan St, and Syracuse. Not on our current level of: New Mexico, Boise
St, Oregon St, Montana, Rutgers, Tulsa, Rice. Keep in mind Utah's schedule
the past several years would be good if you were Div II. With the weak
schedule, we should expect better then 7-4. With the talent pool we recruit
from, the new stadium, our city location, deep pockets, the past is simply
not good enough. Utah has never won an outright championship in the
29 years of my life.
You've answered your own question with #3. Utah has
never consistantly been ranked in the top 25. Utah has always underachieved.
Look at a program like Marshall that is recently removed from being Div
II. Even though their in a relatively weak conference they win it consistanly
and are a regular in the top 25.
I look at it like a business. The entreprenuer
is with the company until it becomes to large for the person to handle
then he/she sells or is replaced by someone who can make it go public.
After its public, a new CEO is brought in to deal with stockholder expectations,
and so on and so on. The question you need to ask is, has McBride taken
us as far as he can? If yes, we thank him and look for something better.
If no we make changes to meet the new expectations. I say we wait until
the end of the season and make a determination.
Date: Tuesday, 5 October 1999, at 1:08 p.m.
I am quite surprised at your lack of wanting to
see the Utes succeed at another level. You somehow harbor deep feelings
of loyalty towards Coach McBride, which is your perrogative. It seems that
the whole basis of your arguement is hinged on two philosophies:
A) Utah will never achieve a higher level of succees,
B) Ron McBride is "made" for Utah football, and
we wouldn't be able to find anyone better, therefore let him stay as long
as he would like.
Let me attempt to dispute these two notions, if
Footnote: It's just my opinion, but I think McBride
would have been let go after last season, but because he was under contract
for one more year (I think), Chris Hill didn't want to eat his salary,
and decided to give him one last chance. If I'm wrong about this
footnote, forgive me (and correct me as well).
First of all, why don't you think Utah could do better
in football? Let's look at Utah's current situation/problem: Utah is stuck
in a rut of continuous 6-5, 7-4 records, miss more often than hit bowl
appearances, no outright conference championship in over 30 years, and
has a perpetual habit of
losing to much lesser
opponents (no offense Boise fan). If you're willing to settle
for this constant underachieving cycle we like to call Utah football, then
have at it. My thinking on this notion goes a little like this:
Utah should have every bit the chance to continuously
challenge the MWC (WAC in previous years), just like Air Force, Wyoming,
SDSU and Colorado State does. In fact I would venture to say that there's
no reason why BYU should be put on some higher pedestal because they are
BYU. If BYU, et al, can do it, so can Utah. Utah has the facilities, the
city, the wealthy and giving alumni and a respectable fan base to be more
successful than they are. How is it that a school in Laramie can outperform
a school from Salt Lake City? Let's stretch the boundaries a little further
and ask how a school from Lincoln can contend for the National Title every
Further, if you consider the fact that New Mexico
has more outright conference championships (1) than the Utes, then you
can deduce that they should be able to contend as well, and their program
is considered to be fairly pathetic.
Now, to the other notion of McBride (Oh Holy One)
being the only coach capable of coaching the Utes. Ha! Do you mean
to tell me that there couldn't be a single solitary person out there that
could do a better job of running this team? How naive you are. There are
many qualified and distinguished Div. IA and IAA coahes who are hungry
and would love the chance to coach at a higher profile program such as
Utah. Not only that, if this were not their final "destination", so to
speak, I would still want them coaching because it would breath new life
and new blood into this stagnating program.
Let me illustrate this point for you. If we look
back to when Lynn Archibald was coaching the Runnin' Utes, the team was
fairly average. Not much to get excited about. We weren't winning the conference
regularly and we weren't beating our chief rivals with consistency either.
Then along comes Rick Majerus. Poof! The program has gone from being very
average to one of the most respected teams in the country in 10 years.
You may say that Majerus will bolt at anytime to another school. So be
it. Do you want to tell me that you would have rather had Lynn Archibald
at Utah all this time, because a higher profile coach (Majerus) would have
left? Silly. What Majerus has done for the profile of the basketball
program has enabled the U and Dr. Hill to go out and get one of the "hot"
coaches out there to replace him. Utah's stature is so high in hoops, that
a lot of younger and hungry coaches would jump at the chance to coach here.
So might point is, even if McBride isn't the one
to continue on, chances are good that the U will fill his spot with someone
who might be slightly more innovative, more personable, and more qualified
to lead this team, even if they run the chance of losing him to another
program down the road.
You need to get out more. For some reason, you
feel like if McBride can't do it, no one can. I for one am in favor of
evaluating McBride at the end of this season and having Dr. Hill decide
what is best for this school. I am confident he will make the right decision.
Posted By: DC Ute (phint12.dechert.com)
Date: Tuesday, 5 October 1999, at 2:17 p.m.
What are my expectations for Ute football? The bottom
line is that I just want to be able to take pride in the team. I don't
expect the "intermountain" version of Florida State but I do expect that
the team will make me proud to wear my Ute hat around town. By no
means does that mean that they win the conference championship and go to
a bowl game every year. I just expect them to play hard, play smart, and
win the games they are capable of winning most of the time. ColoUte summed
it up best when he said he expects the team to want to win as much as he
wants to see them win.
I really don't expect Ute football to set the
world on fire. Its not even in my wildest dreams that they should achieve
the recent success of the basketball team. I'm just tired of seeing the
same problems every year. I'm tired of taking crap from my BYU fan friends
when the Utes lose to Bosie State, or New Mexico or UTEP or Idaho (in Rice
stadium - when they were still in the Big Sky!) I'm tired of getting my
hopes up for a great year based on the talent level and then losing to
Utah State in the home opener and finishing 4th in the conference. I'm
tired of seeing how great the team can be when they play up to their potential,
and then see them miss the conference crown by a game or two that were
lost due to lack of disipline, mental mistakes, and repetitive play calling.
Until Saturday night I was a member of the "McBride
is the best coach the Utes have ever had - he's done great things for the
program - things would be worse without him" club. In fact last year, I
still supported McBride when many on this board wanted him dumped.
I still am not calling for McBride's head tomorrow
(as some are), but I am of the opinion that unless he corrects some problems
that have plagued his teams from day 1, he should be replaced. My opinion
(as I posted yesterday) is that unless he either wins the conference championship
or goes to a bowl game (and does not lose the game in embarassing fashion)
he should go.
I realize upsets happen - in fact that is one
of the greatest things about sports. If all of the anti-McBride feelings
on this board were a result of only one game then I would be agreeing with
your post 100% But it isn't just about losing to Bosie State the other
Maybe this latest debacle (in a long line of many
debacles) is the end of these problems. This is why I'm reserving my final
jugement on McBride until the end of the season.
Its about losing to two or three teams like that
*every year*, no matter how talented the Utes are.
Its about losing two or three games a year due to
celebration penalties, false starts, late hits, personal fouls, and numerous
Its about demonstrating how completely dominating
your offense can be one week and then struggling to score two touchdowns
Its about continually overlooking oponents.
Its about calling a straight ahead run play on approximately
93% of first downs for the past 10 years.
Its about beating BYU on a semi-regular basis and
assuming that things are all well because that's really all the fans care
Its about sitting down with your AD to discuss these
recurring problems and then attempting to remedy them by the big shake-up
of having your offensive cordinator and quarterback coach trade jobs.
Posted By: MT in MD <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Tuesday, 5 October 1999, at 2:22 p.m.
Final word: with the right coach running the show,
Utah could well meet these expectations. The upgraded schedule will help
hide a multitude of past recruiting "sins" (I am not suggesting illegal
activities, just errors that have perhaps kept Utah off the screen for
many HS kids)--as Utah plays and improves against better opposition, more
kids will get interested in playing for Utah, which will eventually help
improve the talent you are already getting. A better coaching staff will
improve the performance of your players in all aspects, not just their
ability to run the right patterns but also cutting down on the stupid mental
mistakes. It's all possible, but it won't hapen until Mac goes, either
by choice or by pink slip.
If I were a Ute fan (here I go again), I would expect
Utah to be a team that wins five conference games or more every year, and
that finishes with 8 or more total wins every year. That would most likely
lock up a bowl game every two or three years, if not more often, as well
as the occasional top 25 appearance. Additionally, I would expect that
the schedule would look a lot more like CSU's than the ones you have been
playing (I know that trend is changing, but it must stay changed). It is
not out of the realm of possibility for Utah to be at that point in the
next five years, but I don't think it will happen with McBride at the helm.
If I were a Ute fan (and I may have been one in a
previous life), I would probably be right up there calling for Mac's head.
I think Mac is a rebuilder, but not a go-further (sorry, my usually stellar
vocabulary is failing me today). The Hawaii job would have suited Mac to
a T if he had taken it. Ron has the experience and the track record to
show that he can indeed take a perennial loser and make them a respectable
program. He does not have the ability to instill the kind of discipline
in his players, and appears not to have the know-how to get a team over
the hump from respectability to renown.
If this is indeed Mc Bride's final contract year,
I would not expect him to get an offer on an extension after December.
The Utes could still surprise me and finish off the year 10-1, but I am
not going to bet anything on that.
Posted By: byu Sucks <email@example.com>
Date: Tuesday, 5 October 1999, at 4:32 p.m.
Posted By: ColoUte <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Should we expect the same success as the basketball
program (keeping in mind that we were ranked 8th in the nation just 4 years
ago)? Absolutely! It wasn't that long ago that Ute bball fans were
thrilled with our post-season NIT invitation.
It seems to me that it is simply a question of whether
Boise St., Utah St., Idaho, New Mexico, and
UTEP have better players or they have better coaches:
There is absolutely no excuse for these near divisionII
schools having better players. How can New Mexico, Logan, Boise,
or El Paso draw better players? If they have drawn better players, then
the coaching staff needs to be fired! There is absolutely no excuse for
such poor recruiting.
If it isn't the players it must be the coaches. I
have been a long time supporter of Mac. I think a lot of the problems the
coaching staff are having are offensive coordinator problems (both Lee
and Graves). It is no secret that on first down Anderson is running up
the middle. On 2nd or 3rd down, they are either throwing a screen pass
or a jump ball. Ultimately the coordinators are Mac's responsibility.
Date: Tuesday, 5 October 1999, at 5:18 p.m.
Posted By: UTEopia <email@example.com>
What do we really, honestly expect the Utah football
team should be able to accomplish? To beat all teams from the Big
West, WAC, MAC, and independents (excluding Notre Dame), and lower level
teams from the "Power Conferences" every time we play them. (or at least
99% of the time) Beat C-USA and Big East opponents at least 75% of the
time, as well as mid level PAC-10, BIG-12, and ACC opponents. Get an occasional
big win over an upper level team from a big conference. Most importantly,
Be consistently in the top half of the MWC, and win conference championships.
Do we want them to equal the success of the Basketball
Team? Apples and oranges. In basketball, you can recruit 4-5 good
players, be successful, and create a program. In football, you have to
have a stable of at least 20 good players to build around, and then you
have to deal with injuries a lot more often than in basketball. We're very
lucky to have what we have in our basketball program, and the football
program will never be its equal. That said, I still think we have a ways
to go in football.
Do we want them to win a Conference Title or 2
every once in a while? Not only possible, but should be expected. We can't
compete with BYU for in state recruits until we start winning the conference
fairly regularly. That's not to say every single year like we do in basketball,
but we need to be in the thick of the race every year, and win the race
Are our expectations WAY to high for a program
that will never be able to be in the class of the Florida/Florida State/Michigan/Notre
Dame's of College Football? I personally don't expect a program of
this calliber. I can count the schools on one hand that have perennially
ranked football and basketball programs. I just want to be in the top 40
of college football teams, and be a program that earns a hell of a lot
more respect than we got from Washington State.
I don't think that the expectations of an occasional
conference championship, a casual mention or even a highlight on ESPN now
and then, and not being considered a gimme win against a "Power Conference"
opponent are out of line. That said, I think McBride can lead us to that
level. He is able to recruit good talent, and has a vision for the program.
He has got to do something with the offensive coordinator, though. If we
are to be competitive with bigger programs, we have to be able to utilize
the talents of our players much better than we have been able to in the
Date: Tuesday, 5 October 1999, at 8:35 p.m.
Posted By: UteNut <JMunro2966@aol.com>
I do not expect the U to challenge for the National
Championship. I do expect the U to challenge for the conference championship
almost every year. By challenge, I mean go into the final game of the season
controlling your own destiny and having the opportunity to win the thing
outright. I expect the U to actually win an outright confernce championship
once or twice a decade. I expect the coaching staff to be able to make
adjustments during the game and at halftime. I do not believe that the
offense during Mac's tenure has been able to do this. I expect the coaching
staff to have the team prepared for all games, regardless of the opponent.
This has not happened for 40% of the games each year.
I am not anti-Mac. In fact, I have been a defender
of his for several years. When people on this board and elsewhere were
calling for his head last year, I was against it. However, I am not satisfied
with where the program has stayed for the past 5 years. Mac did take us
to a higher level than we have ever experienced, and for that, I am grateful.
The program has remained at the same level since 1994; 7-4, 2nd, 3rd or
4th in the WAC, begging to get into the worst bowl game in America, all
while sending some very good players to the NFL.
Has Mac done great things for the U? yes.
Has the program improved over the past 5 years?
Are my expectations unreasonable? I don't think
The question is, when does the status quo become
unacceptable? I won't make my final decision until the year is over. However,
I have some concerns. More importantly, the U administration has some concerns.
Chris Hill's refusal to extend Mac's contract last year illustrates that
concern. The Boise State game is not important
in and of itself. What is important is the way the team played and the
continuation of problems which have existed for years.
Date: Tuesday, 5 October 1999, at 10:15 p.m.
My expectations for Utah football are great, to compete
in the country as a perennial top 25 type team, a team to be reckoned with.
I can see all of the elements for this to happen, but it's like having
a firework with a fuse that continually duds, you KNOW how pretty it can
be if it only went off! I would like continual eight win seasons, conference
championships, at least every other year, and other people to KNOW what
in the hell a "Ute" is.
I am in a quandry on this one. I love Coach Mac,
but I couldn't believe how awful the Utes were in Boise.
All of the things brought up are true, undisciplined players, poor play
calling, coming out flat when motivation should already by there, mistakes,
penalties, all the rest of it. I do believe Coach McBride should
stay, and I was at Boise St. for this mess.
You just can't lay all this on McBride, he did everything he could to prepare
the team to beat the Broncos and it just fizzled. Let's give him a chance,
maybe if the season pans out with a good year and a bowl game we'll have
forgotten all about the negatives. Hopefully anyway. We are dealing with
teenagers and young men here, it's hard figuring out what they're thinking
and how they will act.
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