Debunking the Lazy Recruiter Myth

HOOPS: Debunking the Rick is a "poor recruiter" or simply a "lazy recruiter" myth . . .

First of all, there are a number of reasons for why Rick has a high level of turnover in his program, and not one of them has to do with how good of a recruiter Rick is. Since Rick's tenure at Utah he has always had a number of players leave the program for various reasons, not just recently. I would agree, however, that it has happened more since 1998, but there are some reasons for this.

1)Rick has always taken chances with players and will continue to do so. Why? Because, as SeattleUte aptly points out, Utah cannot consistently recruit top D1 talent (even under Majerus) so Majerus looks for sleepers because he must. (e.g., Zimmerman, HUGE upside but viewed as a project; Tyson Johnston; Jon Godfread, even Nick Jacobsen, etc.). Since Rick has been here the most highly recruited player he has signed was Britton Johnson (maybe Zimmerman by the time he enrolls) The next closest is probably Chaney or perhaps Drisdom. Van Horn was recruited by the lower half of the PAC 10. Andre wasn't recruited by a top 100 program. Doleac was recruited by nobody. Al Jensen? Please. And even Drisdom was passed on by UCLA, Arizona and other top programs out West. Chaney, got late interest from Arizona, but only after they had lost out on 2 other guards. And Markson, while getting looks from most programs, dropped off after his injury and for fear that he would be a prop 48 (by the way, Markson hasn't qualified yet so perhaps the "mystery" extra scholarship isn't a mystery after all). Naturally, because Rick must take bigger risks than most programs on a similar level, he will make mistakes and have to run off players that don't turn out(e.g., Godfread a top 100 recruit by many publications; Lance Allred, the number one center on the west coast (both of whom didn't receive much interest from anyone other than Utah)). Rick has also been right about a lot of players (Miller, Doleac, Hansen, Al, Jacobsen, Caton, etc.) that were bona fide "sleepers" before they arrived on campus. But this is much more a reflection of the inadequacies of the Utah program in general than anything that Rick does or doesn't do.

2) Rick is one of the most difficult coaches to play for, and many players don't like to play his style of basketball. This as well adds to many players leaving the program -- e.g., David Jackson, Ashante Johnson for reasons that have nothing to do with their relative ability as basketball players. This is something that will always be an aspect of a Rick Majerus program.

3) Rick does not accept any B.S. (e.g., Wright, Colbert, Bradley) and is not scared to make a player leave who is underperforming academically.

4) Additionally, ever since Andre Miller played at Utah, Rick has been insistent that he have an excellent point guard on his teams. By all means, Andre spoiled Rick. Judkins in part lost his job because of some of the recruiting decisions on his part (let's not go there, I'll just say that is what I've heard, take it or leave it). Until Drisdom, the Utes could not land a top caliber point guard. And there was a point during this season that the Utah coaches thought Osimani would not be able to be a solid player at this level so they started looking at other point guards. Was that a bad recruting decision? Hardly, Utah lost out on its first four choices before landing Osimani.

The notion that somehow Rick is not a good recruiter is ridiculous. In 12 years he has had 5 players make the NBA (Grant (admittedly not recruited by Majerus), Van Horn, Miller, Doleac, and Hanno) and two others come very close (Wilson and Jensen). By all likelihood, Burgess will get a look too. In 12 years, he has 1/3 of all of Utah's All Americans. YES, THINK ABOUT THAT FOLKS. In a program that is more than a 100 years old, in little more than 10 years Rick has 1/3 of Utah's All Americans. And Doleac should be on that list. At what other point in this history of Utah basketball can any coach claim this type of success rate? Perhaps one point of Jack Gardner's tenure, but I doubt it (which by the way was in a much different atmosphere than today's college basketball).

Do schools in this conference -- schools that have similar recruiting limitations -- recruit better than Rick? Perhaps UNLV. But that's it. And UNLV's ability to recruit has nothing to do with coaching. And maybe you can make an argument that New Mexico's recruiting has been almost as good as Utah's. But certainly not better. And by no means as productive as a whole.

To suggest that the high turnover of players at Utah somehow reflects Rick's inability to recruit is simply ridiculous. I have sources in California who coach prep and high school basketball that say Rick is one of the best recruiters around. He knocks down three times as many doors as Lute or Lavin or Bibby. He has to. The problem is that those kids that can start at UCLA and Arizona and even USC will not play for Utah, even though they love Rick. And recruiting in Utah is not much easier because of the presence of BYU and LDS recruits. It would be one thing if Utah even remotely had a history of landing top caliber players to say Rick isn't a good recruiter. But such claims lack any foundation when you consider the realities of the University of Utah, MWC and Utah in general.

Posted By: L.A. Ute!
Date: Thursday, 4 April 2002, at 4:09 p.m.

First of all, Legal, let me say that you and SeattleUte are among the most insightful posters on this board. I never miss your posts. So I want to be clear about that!

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Rick is poor recruiter or lazy. I certainly wasn't. All I am saying is that there seems to be a problem, and it's troubling. $:\$ Gilly seems to think so too. So does runnutz. This is not a personal attack on Majerus. I am simply saying, "This looks like a problem to me." I guess what you are saying is that there is no problem. I'm just not ready to accept that point of view yet. We can agree to disagree.

In any case-- Go Utes! Go Majerus! Go DMC! Go Ekoj Asti!

I do not need to post here because my sentiments...

Posted By: UtahFanSir
Date: Thursday, 4 April 2002, at 8:21 p.m.

have been represented in spades. I also do not think Rick is either lazy or a poor recruiter. However, I have pointed out in my posts that some folks have mentioned that and I have repeated what they wrote in a rhethorical manner attributed simply to "other posters" to stimulate debate. Your decision to reply now, in my opinion, completed the line of thought I was interested in pursuing.

Utah is a difficult place to recruit to. I know some have weighed in that Logan and Ogden have their fair share of Afro-Americans and its a problem at Utah related to Rick. I do not buy that. I think Utah struggles to get the highest caliber of recruit to commit to the program and Rick has been somewhat frustrated by it. Those that have come, come for Rick.

What Judkins and Daniels brought to the relationship was the good guy in a good guy-bad guy relationship among the authority figures that actually creates very positive tension for players. I do not think Dick Hunsaker has the same appeal. The team probably needs that to increase the comfort level among players. These guys are a long way from home and sometimes they have needs Majerus cannot supply, but another coach can. I think there is a dynamic around this too not in Utah's favor at the moment.

Rick in my opinion has been so frustrated by recruiting that he flirted with the option of building his final portfolio elsewhere. After the Final Four, fueled by ego (we all would), he seriously entertained whether or not to complete his career somewhere else. He had his chance. And these flirtations did affect recruiting, in my opinion, there is little doubt of that. But Rick has made a decision now about where he wants to coach. I see a man with a different kind of determination, that we all should recognize and appreciate and support.

I agree that Rick is an excellent judge of talent and based solely on the athletes he has offered scholarships to (and that is an impressive list...not just the names we have seen in this thread), he knows what he wants. He goes for those Midwest-West type players, where the likelihood that they will come to Utah is the highest. And he does compete with the same schools year in and year out for their talent: predominantly the Pac-10, Big-12, MWC (especially BYU, NM and UNLV). He has been everywhere save for the far east (and he has probably been there too) where the competition is incredibly steep and the distance is too far for the parents of those kids to see their sons play.

That said, by luck or whatever, Majerus built up a great program that culminated in a Final Two appearance. Aside for a brief letdown since say 2000 he is rebuilding with a vengence (some schools wish their programs were as successful as a letdown year for Utah). For circumstantial reasons, he has been able to assemble at the same time the unique combination of talent that the 1996-2000 teams had.

As I have said before, the decisions of folks like Whiting had a huge impact on the relative success of the Utah program. That kid put Majerus in a bind. I feel that Trent did not exercise good judgement when he committed to Utah in the first place. Believe me, the Utah program suffer as a result. Then year before last was unforeseen. This year the team suffered an unlucky break with Burgess who would have made a huge impact. Utah potentially was a Sweet 16 team with him.

Its the combination and depth. I have posted before that in this order, the team needs a great PG, center and a PF to be competitive at the Sweat 16 level. Next year we may have the tools, but they will be inexperinced so it will probably be a rebuilding year with great play at the end of the season and not the beginning.

Someone posted a week back saying that nothing good came out of Utah's Final Four appearance. That is wrong: three things have come out of it, namely 1) a commitment by Majerus to stay at Utah, 2) a determination to build a quality program at Utah, and 3) better recruiting. I think we have only seen the beginning of what will be a long string of terrific Utah programs. Besides some earlier Utah-bred talent that I do not want to overlook, evidence of my opinion is Zimmerman, Drisdom, Chaney, Markson, Osimani, C. Jackson, and Frost. And the other guys are probably very good also, but these guys I think will stand out and they have been assembled at one time.

Like just about everyone, great post. I liked the way you forwarded your argument. And I happen to agree with it. That said, I have been frustrated that more All American kids do not come to Utah to play for Majerus. As I have mentioned in this place before, Majerus is not willing to pull the crap some of the coaches and boosters are willing to do to buy a player. (If you do not think this is going on today, you are naive). And I hope Majerus finds a way to attract increasingly better talent.

I have also been frustrated with the exodus. But I think Majerus has come to the point where if a guy is not going to make it in his program, better to move him on sooner than later. I trust that as the program gains notarity, that recedes as an issue.