HOOPS: View from Row 4
Posted By: Wakara
<redrock60@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, 29 January 2002, at 1:53 a.m.
It was an ugly win. We shot badly and played average defense, but we made plays when we had to. The zoo's plan was to guard tight on the 3 point line and grab when we tried to drive past them. Zoobies can whine all they want about the differential in free throws, but there were many fouls that weren't called, especially on Hansen. Cleveland has invented "hack-a-ute".
Luckily, we were hitting our free throws. Oh and by the way, one reason we had so many free throws was how many times the zoo fouled us at the end so we wouldn't run out the clock. Take away those 8-10 free throws and the numbers aren't out of line. Just once, wouldn't it be nice for a zoobie to give us credit rather than whine and blame their loss on someone else. Nah, won't happen.
The good
Britton Johnsen - Solid game on both ends and rebounded in traffic well. Had one or two braincramps on turnovers and defense, but was the best Ute tonight. The zoobies had no answer for him. He gets the game ball. Becoming the player we always hoped for.
Caton - Is there a more mentally tough Ute? Hit some big threes and nailed some freethrows. He banged and banged and wore them down.
JJ - Played very good D, but appeared tentative on offense after his 1st shot. Shut down bigelow. Needed to rebound more.
Nicky J - Yeah, he didn't score, but he makes so many smart little plays on the floor. I am more impressed with his all around play every game. And he's only a sophomore.
The Mixed
Spivey - Made his free throws, and had a big basked and strip near the end, but also did not seem to be in the game at many times. He almost looked sick sometimes, with little energy or focus until his big play. The most maddening play of the night was watching Montague take the ball coast to coast about halfway through the second half (not at the end of the game, that was a bonehead play too) with Spivey loping along beside him the whole way. It was almost like he didn't think Stubby Montague was good enough to beat him, which he shouldn't have been.
The Bad
Allred - Lance played awful interior defense and was a black hole. He made one great drive and scored, but was awful every other time. Once he gets the ball he gets blinders and tries to score regardless. He once got the ball in the post and NJ cut threw. NJ's man was screened and he was wide open in the corner. Lance tried to take it to the hole instead of passing it out for a wide open shot. Selfish on Offense, slow to help on defense. Lance is big, strong and pretty athletic, but he doesn't "get" team ball yet. Needs to add the mental part of the game and to become a very good player.
Cullen - only because he was shooting too quickly. I thought one of the main reasons we struggled offensively in the second half was because Phil spent it on the bench. Either Rick was mad at him for his early shot selection, or Rick was going with the defensive lineup. Hard to say, but we won.
Turnovers - We threw the ball away too many times. The only consolation was that the zoobie players were even dumber in that regard.
The zoobies played hard, but don't have the talent we do, flat out. eminem tatto boy Hansen was far and away their best player. He has a great nose for the ball, and beat us way too many times for offensive boards. He also played NJ tight, but it was clear they weren't going to let NJ shoot. I never saw them leave NJ once. But at the end Hansen got dirty, elbowing BJ in the face and raking Spivey over the head on a rebound. He played great tonight for the Y, but he stepped over the line into Cooperville at the end. "Ally McBigelow" showed me nothing. "Phil Niekro" Montague is a D III talent with a D 1 heart. Has got the worst looking shot in the post-modern era. Only Spivey's lack of focus at times allowed him to play any role at all. I love how we challenge him to shoot, but it was stupid to do that with 2 minutes left in the game when he finally knuckled in a 3 to bring them within 3 points. The sun shines on every dogs ass once in a while.
Jensen is a Freshman, and looked intimidated by playing at the HC. Nielson was too slow laterally to play d on the perimeter (Cullenesque). Bobik was like Bobbit, no male organ. Carlisle looked like a pasty white cheeseburger. He should have listened to Majerus and taken a year off to get in shape. He has skills, but needs to get back into basketball shape.
Burges would have eaten these guys up inside. They clearly played us to shoot the three, and burgess would have had a field day. If he's back for the game in provo, he will give the zoobies a real reason to hate him By the way, he didn't even dress tonight.
I liked Cleveland before the game, thought he was a class act, but he's been at the Y long enough to catch the Y'ners disease. He whines as much as any coach in the league to the referees, he just doesn't stamp his foot like Mclain. I thought he and Majerus were going to come to blows at one point after Rick got angry at Hansen for a cheap shot.
It was a physical, emotional game. The Y's plan was to not let us have open three's, and bump us on the drive. Almost worked. But I look at it this way. Our rival gave us their best shot, the law of averages on the 3 point line caught up with us, we played uninspired at points, and we will still won.
I think we win in Provo as well, with Burgess in the middle rebounding and scoring.
Good night
HOOPS: Here you go LC my thoughts on the game...
Posted By: Mr.
Crimson <me@me.com>
Date: Tuesday, 29 January 2002, at 1:46 a.m.
This is a game that I think bodes well for the Utes. A game when their shooting leaves them they step up against an emotional rival fighting for their conference lives. The Y came back hard after being embarassed last weekend and they should be given alot of credit. I have and probably will continue to make fun of Travis Hansen but he came up big tonight.
Our defense was tough enough keying that run that essentially was enough to hold off BYU and Travis Spivey is nails down the stretch.
Britton really seems to be finding himself, if that continues and we have our shots more nights than not this will be a very dangerous team come tourney time.
In addition, I love the spirit of Lance Allred even if he does do some dumb things, I think he'll be a real player next year. Also if knock on wood Burgess returns healthy and gives us a real post threat then this team becomes very very good.
HOOPS: I can already see what the fallout of this game will be...
Posted By: Portland
Ute <portlandute@hotmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 29 January 2002, at 1:17 a.m.
there will be much debate about the perceived (by some BYUers) disparity in fouls. I have now read just a few arguments on other boards. Apparently, if one team fouls, the other team must also be fouling. Sure. Whatever.
I am not saying that BYU didn't get "jobbed." What I am saying is that is a weak take. Much has been said about BYU supposedly coming into this game with resolve to be more intense and physical. Well, that is great. But expect to have some fouls called against you. Especially on the road. Especially if you are a freshman playing in the middle. Especially in your first "rivalry" game.
There is no law of the universe that says that just because team A is committing fouls, surely team B must be committing fouls.
Maybe the reason BYU was even as close as they were at the end was because they played physical and used almost every foul they had to give on their bench. Maybe it is because BYU doesn't have a very deep bench. Maybe it is because they turned the ball over 7 more times than the Utes. Maybe it is because Bigelow is still teaching the 5th discussion to somebody inside of his head. Maybe it is because Steve Cleveland misses enough of the game due to his twitching eyes that he is at a disadvantage to make game time adjustments.
Is that guys twitching eye problem getting worse? It seems to be. Also, he seems to have added a nice head tic to his game.
HOOPS: The Truth, which you can't handle
Posted By: codeRed
<yugly1@iwon.com>
Date: Tuesday, 29 January 2002, at 3:24 a.m.
A) The foul controversy is a joke. The fact that 'so called' respectable Y posters are crying about it makes it even less funny. Take your own advice and rewatch the game. Hanson, in a real game would've been gone way early. He is a world class hacker. So is Montegue (sp?).
B) There were plenty of bad calls, but it surely went both ways. For example, I really like the play when the Y player burried his head in Spivey's chest, yet spivey got the foul. Or how about the elbow Montegue gave spivey in the face.....No call. Or the charge Hanson had into Jeff towards the end. The ref made it up for calling him for over the back, which he wasn't. The refs sucked, but the sucked both ways.
C) I am now, more than ever, thoroughly convinced that 99% of all Y fans a classless "loosers" who have no idea of what class is. For example, after the U lost to the Y in football NO ONE on this board blamed the refs. Mac yes, rice yes, hunter yes, refs....no. Yet read the board for evidence of how the Y takes a loss.
D) Cleveland lost this game by playing cheap. He's no dummy. It almost worked. I especially liked when he claimed to not know that (forgot his name) fouled out at the end. Nice way to ice the other team shooting the FT when you have no timeouts left. The Y WAS holding our cutters throughout the game. Watch the tape and see. Oh and watch for the numerous (I'd say well over 10) Mikeli Wesley-like elbows thrown by the boys in blue.
E) If you scroll down the board a ways you'll see that someone called this game. "tough game, but Utah wins by 5" (had to brag a little).
F) Y fans are an embarassment to the LDS church. It makes me embarassed for them. I would'nt cry a bit if the church decided to do away with the athletic program.
G) We NEED Burgess back. This game shows just how mediocre we can be without a true inside presence. It was an ugly game when Utah couldn't hit the basket with a smart bomb. Chris is needed. I hope he can come back soon or at least get a medical hardship.
The truth hurts
Go Utes!
HOOPS: A few replies to Ute comments below, and other general thoughts....(long)
Posted By: OhioBlue
<jensen.80@osu.edu>
Date: Tuesday, 29 January 2002, at 7:34 a.m.
First, not having seen the board since yesterday afternoon it is amusing to see its current condition. It would almost appear some of you guys have been really missing the Y trolls. Only a couple showed up, and look at the response...maybe you should consider hiring a couple official board trolls (now that some are conspicuously absent) so that you have someone to unload on regularly. (tic)
But seriously....a few thoughts on comments I read in below discussions:
"B) There were plenty of bad calls, but it surely went both ways." And then, later in the same post.... "Oh and watch for the numerous (I'd say well over 10) Mikeli Wesley-like elbows thrown by the boys in blue." CodeRed
>>>I agree with your first assertion. Of course it went both ways. But to claim that a BYU team that hadn't played physical in a long time (and was reamed for playing like they didn't care by their coach) was doing anything more than trying to play hard is...well, only seeing it one way. Stick with your first comment, you were right on about the "both ways" thing. If elbows were intentionally thrown then that is unfortunate. I would suggest however that BYU was just playing hard and fighting like the wounded cats that they are right now.
"It's a good thing the Ute-Killer Neilson (sp?)had so much foul trouble."
VegasUte>>>>I don't know when he will show up again. Foul trouble seems to have plagued him his entire career, I suppose I should be happy he at least reached double digits. The worst part of it is, when he wants to he can create his patent 8-10 footer and hit it most of the time. I wonder what it takes to get him to want to....
"¡¦they seem to be saying that Utah sucks and that the conference is mediocre at best if Utah is in the lead." Portland Ute
>>>I disagree. If anything, BYU fans should be happy that the Cougs played as well as they did against a hot team, clearly the best in the conference right now. I actually hate this "we suck, so keeping it close must mean they suck" argument and to be fair have seen it used by more than a few Ute fans in reference to football.
"But I guess unless an official blows his whistle the same amount of times for each team, he's biased huh?" DiehardUte
>>>>Well said. It wasn't too long ago that BYU fans were inundated by trolls representing who we thought was a classy program and fans (Miss. St. Dawgs), and their own board was even worse. Since then I have vowed to never, EVER, blame officiating again for a loss.
"Britton has put together a successful string of impressive games." LCUte
>>>I'd say so. For all the talk about when Britton would finally approach his potential, it must be comforting to know that this guy is finally becoming consistent....consistently good. Maybe the silver lining to Burgess getting hurt.
"you got out played but made free throws that won the game for you." CougarFan
>>>I'll say we played tough. I'll say we hung close when we probably shouldn't have. I'll say we fought a good fight. But outplayed? Obviously not.
"I have and probably will continue to make fun of Travis Hansen but he came up big tonight." Mr C
>>>Now you know why he scored so much in that fabled summer league game. :-) As you and others have said, he's a gamer, hands down. Glad he showed up.
In reference to Montague: "Only Spivey's lack of focus at times allowed him to play any role at all." (Wakara)
>>>Wakara, I like you and all, but that's just plain ridiculous. Montague finished with 13 pts, 7 rebs, 5 assists, and only 1 TO. If Spivey's lack of focus "allowed" him to do that then he doesn't deserve to play D-1 ball.
"Is that guys twitching eye problem getting worse? It seems to be. Also, he seems to have added a nice head tic to his game." Portland Ute
>>>I feel for the guy, he obviously needs some rest, and some anti-anxiety help wouldn't hurt. I also wish Ute fans would find something more creative to make fun of. Somehow the 'twitch' and the 'casserole' just do not compare.
"I think we win in Provo as well, with Burgess in the middle rebounding and scoring." Wakara
"I do not look forward to playing these guys in Provo." LA Ute>>>We shall see. With Burgess back I'm inclined to think the Utes get exponentially better, but one never knows. I'd also like to think that two guys who were absent from the Cougar side (Bigelow and Jensen) will play a much better game at the MC. Should be a great game.
Also consider that BYU outrebounded Utah, according to ESPN boxscore (which may be incorrect) quite badly. I would think that for as well as Utah is playing as of late, the one area that will keep them from winning the MWC outright is rebounding. Burgess should help there, but still not a great board effort.
Well, great game overall .For those who made it this far in my post, I congratulate you. And I congratulate myself for nearly calling the winning score--I said 70-67.....ok, so I switched the two teams around though.
Minor detail.
GO COUGS!!!
HOOPS: A pet peeve of mine is when a poster from the other team jumps on the opponent’s board and gives the ol' "Great game... (blah, blah, blah)," but...
Posted By: Scottie
<golf_club_scottie@hotmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 29 January 2002, at 8:11 a.m.
here I go.
I've watched 4 or 5 Ute basketball games this year, most of them early in the season, and your team has come a long way. Anyway, here are some areas I feel they've really improved in:
-It appears that Britton finally understands that this is his team. The Cougs did an excellent job of defending the three point territory, but playing that tight of man-to-man "D" made it possible for him to juke his man and take it to the hole. Also (this could be more important than him understanding his role on the team), I don't think I saw a single acrobatic, whirly-twirly shot attempt from him last night, and he finished with what, 20 points? Anyway, if he's finally worked that stuff out of his system, he's going to be the MWC MVP, setting up a magical senior season.
-This point ties into the one above, but Jacobsen's 3-point shooting percentage requires teams to play man-to-man defense if they want to stay in the game, and that plays into Majerus' hands like (I'm trying to come up with a great simile here), uh, butter on bread, or something like that.
-While the Cougs played some good defense last night, Utah played it even better. I realize it was a game with their biggest rival, but if they can play defense like that from here on out, they'll have a chance to win the games in which their shots aren't falling.
I've seen some people talk about how well they've played with Burgess out, but for those of you who think that way, think about how dangerous you could be with Chris just grabbing offensive rebounds and slamming them back. It appeared to me that Utah didn't get as many rebounds as they would have liked last night, and adding Burgess to the mix could be exaclty what your team needs to make any noise in the NCAAs.
Thoughts on the Cougars
BYU really needs some production out of Bigelow. If he had had a good game last night, the Cougars might have won. I thought he looked tired all night.
Nielsen just kills the Utes. Ever since that conference tourney game two years ago, he plays great against Utah and looks supremely confident.
BYU tried a little too hard to force the ball into Jared Jensen when Caton was on him. I think if they had just run the normal offense and let him get his touches or crash the offensive boards, it would have worked much better. But they kept forcing it in there and throwing it away.
The Cougars are quicker than Utah, and it really showed on their defense where they bothered Utah all night, especially on the perimeter shots. Only Britton had a clear quickness advantage, and the help rotation on his drives was pretty good. Spivey overpowered Montague to the hoop a few times, and I thought Utah should have gone to that more.
Hansen is a player. I may not like some of the things he does, but he guarded NickyJake very well and Utah had a hard time stopping him on the drive and keeping him off the glass. He can shoot the three from a standstill position with a guy close to him -- he put one right in Osmundson's face - which helps open up the drive for him. I still think he travels alot and pushes off on those pullup jumpers, but no one is calling it so he might as well keep doing it.
BYU really needs some bench help. Seriously. You have to hope Monty and T-Hansen don't wear out by the season's end.
HOOPS: The Game
Posted By: Goatnapper'96 <kip@starwest.dcdi.net> (fw.dcdi.net)
Date: Tuesday, 29 January 2002, at 8:53 a.m.
Kudos to the Utes for the victory. They beat BYU hands down. I watched the game and I did not realize how poor the officiating was until I came to work today and started to read the boards (TIC). I thought the game was called fairly. BYU was the more physical team which resulted in more fouls. I dispute any claim that BYU is dirty, but they did play hard and physical.
My thoughts:
1.) Majerus is such an awesome coach. The Utes seem to have very few mental lapses. BYU had one late in the first half that I felt cost them the game after they had nutted up and played hard despite losing Nelson to foul trouble. I was ready to call that charge that JJ took as the play which would turn the game but the Y overcame Nelson's absence. Utah is so consistent that if you give them one inch they take a yard. I feel this is a result of being so disciplined from great teaching and coaching. The Utes did not suddently get hot against the Y during that span as much as U took advantage of Cougar lapses. Majerus is a brilliant strategist, but I am sure I am telling you nothing that you do not already know.
2.) Trace Caton is the man. Even though I am a Cougar fan I love his effort and desire. Personally, I feel he should have gone to Army. He is a warrior who came up and made clutch plays out of pure desire. He is fun to watch.
3.) Travis Spivey is the senior leader your team needs. Very clutch play at the end of the game.
4.) BJ is starting to play like he is capable. If he stays consistent he could finish next year as the POY. Sorry, but I think Holcomb will get it this year.
5.) I thought Cleveland had his team focussed and ready to play. The big difference in the game IMO was the final 2 minutes of the first half.
6.) I know most of you will hate Travis Hansen because of the emotion he shows. I lament the emotion he displays as he sometimes plays himself out of games. He needs to improve his compusure. However, he is a player who plays with all his heart. Hopefully he will mature as I feel conference refs will tire of his antics.
7.) I absolutely detest whining about officials. I hated it when teams whined during football about the officiating that was favorable to the Y and I hate Y fans whining about last nights officiating. It is such a pathetic excuse. Plain and simple the Utes are/were the better team. Winners focus on controlling what they can control such as turnovers, giving up offensive rebounds, and making short bank shots.
8.) Was the Utes 3 point shooting last night an aberration?
9.) The game in Provo will be a blast. I think the Cougars will win in Provo. Utah will still win the conference outright.
Great victory last night and U won the game. Your consistency, defense, and clutch plays carried the day. As a fan I felt like my team was beaten by a better team rather than giving it away by playing poorly like the last two. I just wish that yesterdays effort had shown up at the USAFA.
Goatnapper'96
Re: HOOPS: just when you think there are no rational Cougar fans
Posted By: runnutz
Date: Tuesday, 29 January 2002, at 9:12 a.m.
Goatnapper comes along and expresses my thoughts exactly. The only thing I hate worse than fans complaining about the officiating is when they attack the other coach. Majerus is fat and Cleveland twitches alot.
Facts, as I see it.1. Both coaches had their teams ready to play and are two of the better coaches in the MWC.
2. Both teams played hard, BYU would not be 2-3 in conference had they played that way all 5 games.
3. Home teams generally get the calls, Utah did yesterday and BYU will in Provo.
4. Utah fans will hear nothing about being "outplayed" by the Cougs anymore than the Coug fans want to hear us say we outplayed them in football.
5. The rivalry is back. I enjoy it alot more than I did when the Coug hoop program was down.
6. It will be a great game in Provo.
HOOPS: Hansen, Johnsen, Jacobsen, etc
Posted By: UtahDan
<mc6066a@american.edu>
Date: Tuesday, 29 January 2002, at 9:56 a.m.
A few observations on players last night:
1. Tarvis Hansen: This guy is a man. He kept BYU in that game basically by himself. He plays very hard and hustles as much or more than anyone on the floor. He needs to take some of teh rough edges off of his game, ala being out of control on offense at times, but he is BYU's best player by a mile. His effort and toughness and versatility all night reminded me (cover your ears I'm about to blaspheme) of Alex Jensen. I hope no Ute fans really hate this guy. He did have loose elbows once or twice but so did we, it's part of the game. I think having now played BYU once, Majerus will make it the focus of the defense to disrupt Hansen. It seems as he goes so go the cougars, maybe some BYU fans who have seen more games than I have can throw some light on that.
2. Nick Jacobson: I think BYU exposed a very big problem offensively of Nick last night, that is, he cannot create his own shot. When a team gets in your face on the perimeter you need to be able to go by them to the hoop or for a shot J. Nick did this only once that I can recall. Other teams are going to employ this same tactic on him and he needs at least once or twice to go by someone, even if he just dumps it off to make his defender respect the drive more and give him more space to shoot. He is not like Cullen who is 10 feet tall and can get that shot off over just about anyone. Otherwise he did have a good game on defense and doing intangibles, but he need s to not be content to be blanketed. He has to have more of aa scorers mentality that he is going to get attempts anyway.
3. Britton: I think we finally are seeing what we all hoped we would. Britton is everywhere and even at the end of the game was flying around working his butt off. I think if cougar fans are honest, they will acknowledge that Jensen and Neilson spent most of the game on the bench becaus they were unable to guard Britton and ended up fouling him. Britton still has too many shots where he makes spectacular moves around the bucket then missed the bunny. I wonder why when he gets in that position he doesn't try to dunk it; I sort of cringe when I see the ball come out of his hands and hit high of the glass. Overall, however, there is no one in the MWC that can guard Britton. My hat is off to him for another great game.
Go Utes!!!
HOOPS: Thoughts on FT disparity.....
Posted By: ColoUte
<everutes@hotmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 29 January 2002, at 11:47 a.m.
I'm not going to sit here and try to break down the game. But I'm more than a little worked up that Cougar Fan is stating that the ONLY reason we won is because we took more FT's. By my count, Utah had 16 more FT's than BYU, so he's correct that we did go to the line more frequently than BYU did. But let's take a second and figure out why.
1) In the first half, Britton got fouled 3 times on the shot because no Coug could stop his drive. That's 6 FT's. BYU, OTOH, was only fouled on common fouls in the first half. There was only a 3 foul disparity.
2) At the end of the game, BYU fouled a Ute player intentionally to stop the clock 5 times. That's 10 FT attempts that cannot be blamed on partial officiating. In the second half, there was only a 2 foul disparity, and as I said above, 5 of the fouls called on BYU in the 2nd half were intentional.
Now, I don't care if you think your Cougs outplayed the Utes. It wouldn't be the first time a delusional Cougar Fan visited our board. But you're completely wrong if you think the officials had everything to do with the outcome of this game.
I'm guessing the 13-2 run to end the 2nd half played a part.
I'm guessing that the fact that no one on your team could remotely match up with Britton contributed to the victory.
Oh yeah, you also had 7 more turnovers.
Don't come on here and talk about FT disparity. That's not even remotely an indication of biased officiating. Foul disparity is a better indicator, and the foul disparity for the game was 5 - which, as stated earler, were intentional at the end of the the game to stop the clock.